Curse

*lemming* · Oct 23, 2010, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilr

K, so you're actually proving my biggest worry about this format.... one which I merely assumed from other games with similar formats & ladders. ....Not exactly what I was hoping to hear. Why should PvE'ers bother then??

You are aware of the following, right?

a. Smurfing happens in lots of other competitive games with rating systems. Starcraft, Starcraft 2, and HoN/LoL are just a few currently relevant ones that come to mind.

b. As described above, the idea of smurfing that you have is founded on misinformation and hearsay. There's certainly no "rabid" smurfing going on, and even when guilds are smurfing to play on ladder, it's almost always taken extremely casually - guilds use the lower stakes to play new builds, play different roles, and guest people they usually wouldn't, including friends from PvE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilr

If you don't understand why it's important to go easy on newer players and play more casually, then I dunno what to tell ya. ...So you tell me instead how exactly your solutions are more inviting and better at growing the format?

The ELO system for ladder exists for a reason - to attempt to match teams of similar skill level against each other. Obviously, it's not perfect, but the more guilds active there are, the more accurate it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilr

You must make that case that this invitation, this entire thread, is more than just a casting call for redshirts (for you Vets to Pwn Hard) or atleast prove ya got a sense of humor. While reporting a post b/c it jokingly included the "Candy Van" demonstrates the opposite of that capacity. IE: Instead of making me RAEG, make an effort get me on your side.

If you choose to willfully misunderstand and ignore our attempts to reach out, there's not much I can do about it.

ilr · Oct 24, 2010, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

If you choose to willfully misunderstand and ignore our attempts to reach out, there's not much I can do about it.

I'm not choosing to ignore anything. I'm asking for some kind of proof but I got slapped just for addressing one of the Key issues raised by the OP. It's very frustrating. What else do we have to go on that is considered "reaching out" ? ....This is what the OP stated:

Quote:

Many of you probably are skeptical, thinking that you would get destroyed in a GvG setting, and this would cause frustration and people on your team would rage the team and possibly even the guild. This has been the age old critique of GvG, its not beginner friendly, but all I can say is the community has become more open lately considering we collectively will do anything possible to attract new players

I'm just going off that and sticking to the #1 focus of this thread. Which is: Will they do anything specifically to make it more casual or lower the bar to entry? He said it's OKAY to be skeptical. And I'm very much on point here and I am specifically avoiding any Ad Hominem or trolling. I'm looking for some cooperation, a specific criteria, and no one will give me a yes or no on it.

Reverend Dr · Oct 24, 2010, 06:15 AM // 06:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilr

I'm asking for some kind of proof but I got slapped just for addressing one of the Key issues raised by the OP.

Why do you require "proof"?

The only reason I can see is that you have already made up your mind about PvP and its community and all your actions that you take are designed to reinforce it.

ilr · Oct 24, 2010, 07:32 AM // 07:32

I like PvP'ing... just not in this game (they overcomplicated so much of it). ...Always wanted to GvG here, just never had the opportunity what with being in PvE guilds who's ideas of PvP is usually synching JQ. But it is ironic how my "mind is already made up" on the topic when assumptions like that are exactly what I get slapped for here.... when I mention the dynamic of this thread looking like it's all about just getting fresh meat into the grinder without any incentives to make niches for casual PvP within it....

Faer · Oct 24, 2010, 07:58 AM // 07:58

ilr, if you want some sort of proof that veteran GvG players are willing to assist new players in an effort to revive the format, then all you must do is log into Guild Wars, watch some matches on Observer Mode, and ask some of the players for help. If you want proof that they are out to make things better for everybody and not just themselves, then you must go and experience it for yourself. Asking posters on a forum for this, especially in this thread, will not get you anywhere, and will only further support the assumption that you are a bad and bitter troll.

Now please stop derailing this thread. It is not appreciated.

Essence Snow · Oct 24, 2010, 08:18 AM // 08:18

I'm a PvE player through and through...I've actually gotten to the point where there is nothing left for me to do. (i've played every char through every campaign...through every elite area...farmed with every char....etc) Invite me......teach me....then I might be able to judge ya'll unbiased. I am willing and able......but I will not leave my guild....... I will not delve soley into pvp...but I will try...and if it turns out like ya'll propose, I will advocate.

Elnino · Oct 24, 2010, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

I'm a PvE player through and through...I've actually gotten to the point where there is nothing left for me to do. (i've played every char through every campaign...through every elite area...farmed with every char....etc) Invite me......teach me....then I might be able to judge ya'll unbiased. I am willing and able......but I will not leave my guild....... I will not delve soley into pvp...but I will try...and if it turns out like ya'll propose, I will advocate.

If you maintain an open mind, take constructive criticism and improve as a result, I'm sure you will enjoy it.

aeronox · Oct 24, 2010, 12:11 PM // 12:11

I'd still be totally addicted to GvG if there were enough people playing

it was soooo much fun, but that was 3 years ago.

diabiosx · Oct 24, 2010, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Well this world is not utopia guys, many pvers have bad experiences pvping, theres nothing you can do to change that. But you know who can?? ANET! if you want pvp to be more popular, you need really need Anet's help. But of course its a 5year old game, GW2 is hard at work making its debut, don't think Anet will help.

You know how Anet made a poll with 10,000players about War in Kryta? They need to make a poll with 10,000players what would get them interested in GvG and how it would make GvG easier to learn without its changing format.

Also I see a theme here in this thread. A pver comes here to post their own opinion of why they dont want to gvg and you guys just swarm him and tell him why hes wrong about his own opinion. Very constructive guys(sarcasm).

Also another thing, every community in GW is about the same. I am very offended how some of you guys say Pvers,RAer,HAers are the most terrible player base in GW. Every community(including GvG) has its fair share of douchebags and good people.

xhappy feetx · Oct 24, 2010, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by diabiosx

Also I see a theme here in this thread. A pver comes here to post their own opinion of why they dont want to gvg and you guys just swarm him and tell him why hes wrong about his own opinion. Very constructive guys(sarcasm).

No thats not true, he just to seem very rigid in his views, we are trying to say that whatever he thinks would make us more accessible, we would do, but he then goes on to say that there is essentially nothing we could do to make ourselves more appealing.

fowlero · Oct 24, 2010, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by diabiosx

Also another thing, every community in GW is about the same. I am very offended how some of you guys say Pvers,RAer,HAers are the most terrible player base in GW.

Being one who's mentioned that a fair bit in this thread i feel i should pick up on it.

I did not mean to make out that RAers/HAers are the most terrible player base by any means, there's no fundamental difference between them and GvGers. I know plenty of HAers that i get on with well.

My comments are simply about the amount of trashtalk, which in my opinion it is the case that RA/HA contain much larger amounts than GvG. This however is more because GvG does not have a public outpost for which this to generate itself.

Venla · Oct 24, 2010, 06:14 PM // 18:14

I am a long-time pve'r who has lost interest in pve now that I've completed all the playable gwamm titles and I was about to give up on Guild Wars when I discovered GvG. I can testify that it is a much friendlier format for a newbie than HA and RA (God, especially RA) with a lot less rank and /zrank spamming, teabagging, rageing in all chat, etc. and a lot more constructive criticism. That being said, you will lose, A LOT, and some pretty humiliating losses at time i.e. against a 4-henchie team with an 8-player team etc. before you get better and some people get discouraged. The other problem is that a lot of new players join in wanting only to play their favourite class i.e. dervish or spirit spamming rit and are reluctant to play different classes, especially difficult classes like warrior or monk, and it can take FOREVER to put a team together when the people don't know each other and often don't know how to play the class or build they are given. To take half an hour or more to build a team and then to lose turns off a lot of people.

That being said, a friend and I have formed a guild for pve players who are interested in trying out GvG. I posted an ad on guru yesterday and we've had TONS of applications and positive feedback including more experienced GvGers offering help. The thing is, if there were more newbie guilds like this, we would have a better chance of winning occasionally and learning what we do right as well as our mistakes. So seriously, pve'rs, give the format a try - best case scenario, you'll win a lot of ToT bags and balth faction and title points and have a chance of entering the ATs; worst case scenario, you'll improve your skills and have a good time with your friends. There's really nothing to lose.

wotah · Oct 24, 2010, 07:46 PM // 19:46

I would like to GvG guest to learn or something

IGN Ashes of Halli

Calista Blackblood · Oct 24, 2010, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venla

I am a long-time pve'r who has lost interest in pve now that I've completed all the playable gwamm titles and I was about to give up on Guild Wars when I discovered GvG. I can testify that it is a much friendlier format for a newbie than HA and RA (God, especially RA) with a lot less rank and /zrank spamming, teabagging, rageing in all chat, etc. and a lot more constructive criticism. That being said, you will lose, A LOT, and some pretty humiliating losses at time i.e. against a 4-henchie team with an 8-player team etc. before you get better and some people get discouraged. The other problem is that a lot of new players join in wanting only to play their favourite class i.e. dervish or spirit spamming rit and are reluctant to play different classes, especially difficult classes like warrior or monk, and it can take FOREVER to put a team together when the people don't know each other and often don't know how to play the class or build they are given. To take half an hour or more to build a team and then to lose turns off a lot of people.

That being said, a friend and I have formed a guild for pve players who are interested in trying out GvG. I posted an ad on guru yesterday and we've had TONS of applications and positive feedback including more experienced GvGers offering help. The thing is, if there were more newbie guilds like this, we would have a better chance of winning occasionally and learning what we do right as well as our mistakes. So seriously, pve'rs, give the format a try - best case scenario, you'll win a lot of ToT bags and balth faction and title points and have a chance of entering the ATs; worst case scenario, you'll improve your skills and have a good time with your friends. There's really nothing to lose.

I read your post in Guild Connections and all I can say is, GOOD ON YOU!

Your attitude is exactly what both PvE and PvP communities need to bridge the gap and make both game formats accessible to all regardless of starting rank. I have myself played some GvG this evening due to posts and posters in this thread and even though we didn't win,I questioned my own ability and will look to improving on that (I was playing WoH infuse)

This is a brilliant sign that people do understand and do want to help.I for one am happy to guest(If I am able) with your guild or anyone else for that matter IGN: Calista Blackblood

Again serious /clap because you deserve it...

RotteN · Oct 24, 2010, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by diabiosx

Also I see a theme here in this thread. A pver comes here to post their own opinion of why they dont want to gvg and you guys just swarm him and tell him why he's wrong about his own opinion. Very constructive guys(sarcasm).

In all honesty, so far, i believe most of the replies were in fact very constructive.

It is wrong to claim that people cannot comment on someone's opinion and say that they're wrong. It can be my opinion that the earth is flat, that doesn't make it correct. However, what would be wrong is replies like "lol, you're wrong, noob, you're so stupid!". That has not been the case in this thread. Most of the times, when a PvE-er voices what he perceives as "the GvG community" and how everyone behaves and so on, and we believe he has been misinformed or simply generalises a single or a couple of bad experiences, we state what we experienced so far. It's not a "lol you're stupid"-post, but rather a constructive reply, with arguments to support our own opinion.

After all, we are the experienced GvGers. I think it's rather normal we can provide more insight into how the community "ticks", than the people that have touched it once or twice, or have caught some glimpse from the sideline.

It's not a perfect community, far from, and has it's fair share of negative sides as well. But the average view of the PvE-ers is (in my opinion) far too negative. That's what this thread is about: promote GvG and clear up some of the negative views people have about it, which we believe are incorrect.

jazilla · Oct 24, 2010, 11:38 PM // 23:38

I am the leader of a large Christian Alliance and 2/3's of the matches we tried to do for a few months were always people cussing at us and putting us down because we would go under the tag of Fixed on Christ[FOC] or God Is A Consuming [FIRE].

We always wanted to do GvG regularly, but people could never get past us being Christians so they hurled insults at us like they were orangutans hurling feces at the zoo. Same thing happened in HA too so we stopped doing it. I am glad to see that there is a community that wants to help, but there is a large part of the community that cheats, berates, bots, and insults and I think it's safe to say that both the good and bad exist and I am not sure if the helpful players outweigh the jerks. Just my two cents.

ilr · Oct 25, 2010, 12:46 AM // 00:46

That is very unfortunate to hear Jazilla. Though it does sound familiar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RotteN

It is wrong to claim that people cannot comment on someone's opinion and say that they're wrong.

I actually have a growing pile of evidence to the contrary. In either case... I really hope this thread reaches a happy conclusion for everyone else involved as my participation ends here I guess. But I'm Observing as many of the Current GvG matches as I can. And they seem pretty numerous to me, atleast a dozen taking place every day. So even if things don't work out, it seems pretty healthy... especially for anyone who enjoys playing Warriors or Monk/W's. Have fun and good luck!

xhappy feetx · Oct 25, 2010, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venla

I am a long-time pve'r who has lost interest in pve now that I've completed all the playable gwamm titles and I was about to give up on Guild Wars when I discovered GvG. I can testify that it is a much friendlier format for a newbie than HA and RA (God, especially RA) with a lot less rank and /zrank spamming, teabagging, rageing in all chat, etc. and a lot more constructive criticism. That being said, you will lose, A LOT, and some pretty humiliating losses at time i.e. against a 4-henchie team with an 8-player team etc. before you get better and some people get discouraged. The other problem is that a lot of new players join in wanting only to play their favourite class i.e. dervish or spirit spamming rit and are reluctant to play different classes, especially difficult classes like warrior or monk, and it can take FOREVER to put a team together when the people don't know each other and often don't know how to play the class or build they are given. To take half an hour or more to build a team and then to lose turns off a lot of people.

That being said, a friend and I have formed a guild for pve players who are interested in trying out GvG. I posted an ad on guru yesterday and we've had TONS of applications and positive feedback including more experienced GvGers offering help. The thing is, if there were more newbie guilds like this, we would have a better chance of winning occasionally and learning what we do right as well as our mistakes. So seriously, pve'rs, give the format a try - best case scenario, you'll win a lot of ToT bags and balth faction and title points and have a chance of entering the ATs; worst case scenario, you'll improve your skills and have a good time with your friends. There's really nothing to lose.

I'm glad to see this is happening, I'll help in whatever way possible, good luck in all your endeavours.

xhappy feetx · Oct 25, 2010, 02:05 AM // 02:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilr

That is very unfortunate to hear Jazilla. Though it does sound familiar.

I actually have a growing pile of evidence to the contrary. In either case... I really hope this thread reaches a happy conclusion for everyone else involved as my participation ends here I guess. But I'm Observing as many of the Current GvG matches as I can. And they seem pretty numerous to me, atleast a dozen taking place every day. So even if things don't work out, it seems pretty healthy... especially for anyone who enjoys playing Warriors or Monk/W's. Have fun and good luck!

A dozen a day isn't healthy, in the good days of 2005, 2006, and 2007 you would have several hundred GvGs being played per hour, maybe not all on obs, but the level of activity was definitely higher.

aeronox · Oct 25, 2010, 08:49 AM // 08:49

I have to admit that my first foray into PvP, RA, was at a time without PvXwiki, observer and the skill list was a lot shorter and simpler. I feel sorry for people trying RA now.

That's why, if I was organising a team of GvG newbs, I wouldn't tell them to do RA. I wouldn't tell them to watch obs either, that would be too much information (in the beginning). HA gives fast games, but it's hard to learn anything when you're dead in 1 minute. Factions PvP puts you in large-scale battles, but lacks teamwork and consequences.

So I think the best way to begin a PvP experience in GW is to simply begin with GvG.

Need a bigger population of GvGers.

What this needs is official support. Serious, dedicated support from ArenaNet to put the "Guild" back into their game.

Like... a campaign. Something massive. Videos and stuff. *shrugs* I miss GvG.